Duramax build and the machine shop.

Frogman1

FROGMAN1
Aug 5, 2017
31
1
8
VA Beach
Hello all and firstly, many thanks for the top notch guidance I have received from other posts as well as the guidance from high end engine builders and mechanics.
I am in deep on an LBZ build with the goals of an enduring engine with strong fuel economy and the tuning options of higher than the basic 500-600hp safe zone.
I have an LBZ with about 76K on a non modified, easily worked farm truck, and from my disassembly and inspection it is matching. I am shooting for a max possibility of 800hp on very rare occassions in my Hummer H1(no sled pulling or drags, less the local red light rice burner kids here and there). Just ordered PPE 16.5:1 Mahle performance pack pistons and Carrillo rods. Running a Garrett GT4088R solo. I have dropped the block off today at a trustworthy machine shop who will be clean and fluxing for $100 and boring over to .020 and replacing the cam bearings for $250. They suggested two highly recommended additional options for the LBZ, a heavier block. I'm looking for knowable guidance on lasting, performing rebuilds.
Firstly, they recommended an additional "pressure test" of 80psi to look for pinholes from the water jacket side and from the cylinder side. I asked PPE and they said it was not a concern with the harder, heavier LBZ. I have not heard of the need for this during other builds on various forums and sources, and remember, my engine is low mileage, low wear, high compression (380-400psi per cylinder) and was not needing ra rebuild less my desire to make it heavy duty for higher torque/HP capable possibilities. Does anyone have any input on this PSI check specifically?
My second machine shop recommendation, when I told them I had ARP main studs on the factory main caps was their absolute recommendation for me to have a "Line Bore" done for the crank journals, or stick with the factory bolts. The owner admittedly said there was a D-max guy in here last week with his build that the block owner measured and stated he did not need the line bore done as the studs did not distort the lobes out of specs. I have no plans of going in an additional grand for this only to have to then get eccentric bearings to fit my factory crank and hope it holds evenly all the way around. I do plan on having them do the engine balance once I even up the weights on the PPE PerformancePak piston kit and Carrillos.
lastly, I was looking at going with the harder Clevite "H" or even better, "HK" vice "P" in the standard size for bearings for the crank, rods, and cam. Any experienced words on this to help me with the forever lasting engine? Thanks very much for all of your help.

Ralph
 
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gmduramax

Shits broke
Jun 12, 2008
4,072
248
63
Nor cal
Send you pistons back and get fingers. Run away from the first machine shop. You will for sure need the mains line bored
 

Frogman1

FROGMAN1
Aug 5, 2017
31
1
8
VA Beach
Hahaha! I was vey strongly going to go with Fingers from all the info I had gathered up until last night, as they would be able to give me closer to 17:1 or higher compression to a somewhat safe point. I decided for the steal of a price, I would stick with 16.5 PPE de-lipped Mahle's for a grand or more less because I looked at what a high end pro builder/racer on here and Youtube was running successfully at 15.5:1.
Thanks for the info on the boring.

Best,
Ralph
 

Awenta

Active member
Sep 28, 2014
4,090
2
38
CT
^ that. Line bore yes. Also deck plate hone.


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Frogman1

FROGMAN1
Aug 5, 2017
31
1
8
VA Beach
Thanks. They are deck plating, bore and honing to .020 over. Line boring the main isn't what I was hoping to hear, but apparently, it's a must do if I'm going to use the ARP main studs. Thank you for the help.
 

TheBac

Why do I keep doing this?
Staff member
Apr 19, 2008
15,611
1,868
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Mid Michigan
You would understand the need for the line bore if you torqued the mains down with the studs without it.
Personally have seen it, freaked out when the crank stopped turning easily, laughed our butts off at it when we figured out what happened, then had the mains bored and all was well.
 
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Frogman1

FROGMAN1
Aug 5, 2017
31
1
8
VA Beach
Ouch! At least you had the sense to check and catch it before reassembly! That was kind of my plan as well before the forum inputs. It could have been pricey drama for me hand I gone forward without asking for guidance. Much appreciated!
 

gmduramax

Shits broke
Jun 12, 2008
4,072
248
63
Nor cal
Hahaha! I was vey strongly going to go with Fingers from all the info I had gathered up until last night, as they would be able to give me closer to 17:1 or higher compression to a somewhat safe point. I decided for the steal of a price, I would stick with 16.5 PPE de-lipped Mahle's for a grand or more less because I looked at what a high end pro builder/racer on here and Youtube was running successfully at 15.5:1.
Thanks for the info on the boring.

Best,
Ralph

Hope you enjoy changing pistons every 30,000
 

PureHybrid

Isuzu Shakes IT
Feb 15, 2012
3,495
476
83
Central OH
Don't think that 4088 is going to net 800hp. I'd suggest skipping the main studs and run new bolts. If the bores check out true, I'd also run a std bore. Unless money is no object ;)
 

Frogman1

FROGMAN1
Aug 5, 2017
31
1
8
VA Beach
Pressure test

Thanks for the advise. I've been thinking it over with the support of your and other's posts. New factory bolts seem to be the smartest option for the money. ARP bolts plus line bore would end up at $800 plus what ever additional cost oversized bearings run, not to mention that the block would forever be resized and might or might not be done correctly. Plus... if I'm going that far, why not bore new HD main caps and put on a girdle with the longer ARP studs. It would never end and I'm not looking at ridiculous HP to need that. Good call.

Any ideas about the bore .020 over followed by a "pressure test" in the cylinders and water jacket looking for pitting leaks in the cylinder walls? I searched and found it done on Youtube with a 1933 ford block. From my view for the Duramax It sounds a lot like needing to put new fresh air in your tires every year because the old air gets stale. http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif
 

Awenta

Active member
Sep 28, 2014
4,090
2
38
CT
If you got 400 compression in each hole I wouldn't worry about it. If you were leaking you would know it. But after a bore it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Now on the line bore. I would recommend it no matter what path you go.


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Frogman1

FROGMAN1
Aug 5, 2017
31
1
8
VA Beach
Thanks Awenta. I figure if I tell him not to take my money for the pressure test, I'll probably be going back and paying more for a sleeve or sleeves from a well placed group of holes made during the honing;) have a great one. All say a line bore is a must. Maybe I'll be able to negotiate the price.
 

PureHybrid

Isuzu Shakes IT
Feb 15, 2012
3,495
476
83
Central OH
The shop should be willing to torque the mains and check the block. Even if it needs a light line hone you can still run std bearings without negatively affecting bearing crush.

Yes it's nice to have every part machined and made perfect, but not everyone is building a race engine and we have budgets.

A little time spent measuring / inspecting the block before any work is performed will allow you to skip unnecessary steps and save money in the long run.
 

Frogman1

FROGMAN1
Aug 5, 2017
31
1
8
VA Beach
Thanks for the tip. I'll bring the ARP studs with me and see what they can do as far as checking to see how far out of round they distort.
 

Frogman1

FROGMAN1
Aug 5, 2017
31
1
8
VA Beach
So pin holes are a real thing! Was your engine bored over and was it a daily driver or high performance? Did they have to sleeve it or just fix the spots? Thanks.
 

ikeG

Oughta Know Better
Apr 19, 2011
2,465
147
63
Western PA
www.facebook.com
Stock bore, stock engine in a 4500. Sleeved both

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Sleeved cyl
f6865cd51d2b2b4b0cf9ef985528f412.jpg


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Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,681
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Phoenix Az
if you are going a max of 800hp, there is no need for main studs but if you want to run them, line hone/bore the mains. it would be a good idea to have it done anyhow to open up oil clearance a smidge and make sure you have 0 issues with out-of-round and taper from the bores. if the machine shop knows what they are doing, they will know there is no over sized bearings for the engine and to be very careful not to take too much out.

personally, i would run fingers pistons as well. the extra cost is worth the piece of mind. if you are not willing to switch, make sure you run a turbo setup that will get you to the 800hp mark with a fueling pulse width that is not very high. this will help the pistons live longer. that 4088 wont be enough, you will need a twin on top of it or something else all together.

i would have the block/crank fluxed and checked over but if it was not burning coolant before or gave signs of it, i wouldnt worry about having it pressure checked. they heads should be pressure checked and gone over well though.

make sure you have the 42160 ring set for the pistons, the 41909 do not use the correct metals to be used in a truck looking for longevity out of them.

Run Clevite H bearings, they will be plenty for you. you can get away with stock or P bearings for the cam if the cam is stock or mild. be sure to key the cam and crank shafts.

who will be assembling it?