dilemma

[NinjaMax]

so, around June of last year we decided to build a house, we picked a community that was building with basements and 3 car garages. Nice houses. So, we meet with the community manager and pick out a model and lot. The lot we chose was smaller then id like, but its on the end of the development backed up to a huge field with almost no traffic. The main reason we chose that lot was so we could customize the 3rd car garage. We were scheduled to break ground nov 1st and move in around the middle or end of may. (roughly 6 months from the time you sign the contract)

After we signed the contract to build we began customizing the house. After the wife ran ramped on the interior I got to customize the garage. I added a 10x10 3rd car, that was 23ft deep. Reason for those dimensions was at the time my truck had a 8" lift with 37" tires. Those dimensions would have let me park it no problem inside.

Well, they finally broke ground a little over 2 weeks ago, so they are a little over 5 months late. They said part of the delay was because I had to get permits for the oversized garage, which I paid for that, also paid for the drawings, as well as the added material. They sent me all the new customized blue prints and drawing of the house, all showing my oversized garage. Well, they poured the foundation, framed it all up, installed the floors, walls, and basement....AND FORGOT my "custom" garage. So..my dilemma, ive since then removed my lift from my truck, so the size isn't an issue..but, I cant decide to tell them now or wait till is really far into the build and really hang it to them. What would you do?

 

[Dozerboy]

Depends are you/do you want to be a pr*ck or not?

If you want something to beat them down with latter. See how long it takes for them to notice. Get some pictures of the progress.

 

[NinjaMax]

like I said, the size isn't a problem any more, would I like it bigger, sure..but Im kinda leaning towards seeing how much of the price they'll knock off.

 

[yellowchevy]

I'd say you have 2 options.

1. Bring the signed blue prints to them showing what they should have done, come to an agreement on how it will be fixed.

2. If you're fine with the size of the 3rd stall being your pickup doesn't have the lift then I would give them the option to leave it as is but refund all your money that went to the extra material/cost.

What does the contract say? I'm assuming it specifically calls out the over sized garage being there was added cost?

Whichever chosen I would speak to them professionally and kindly so they don't feel like they're getting pushed into a corner. Now if they aren't agreeing to anything or belligerent then I would obviously get all over them and get a lawyer if needed.

I'd also look through, read, and understand the contract well so they don't try pull something on you.

Personally if it were me I would want the over sized 3rd stall. It's always nice to have the extra space. Just my opinion though.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Yellowchevy

 

[Mile_high]

Depends are you/do you want to be a pr*ck or not?

If you want something to beat them down with latter. See how long it takes for them to notice. Get some pictures of the progress.

No. If its in the C.D.s, you are entitled to it at the agreed upon price and schedule. That isn't being a jerk. Owners of construction projects are entitled to changes to contracts, so long as equitable adjustment is made, due to the nature of the industry. There are exceptions to that and triggers that change the nature of the work based on the type of changes made. This is not any of those...

What I would not do is wait to notify them of the changes they have made by not building to your design.

I'd say you have 2 options.

1. Bring the signed blue prints to them showing what they should have done, come to an agreement on how it will be fixed.

2. If you're fine with the size of the 3rd stall being your pickup doesn't have the lift then I would give them the option to leave it as is but refund all your money that went to the extra material/cost.

What does the contract say? I'm assuming it specifically calls out the over sized garage being there was added cost?

Whichever chosen I would speak to them professionally and kindly so they don't feel like they're getting pushed into a corner. Now if they aren't agreeing to anything or belligerent then I would obviously get all over them and get a lawyer if needed.

I'd also look through, read, and understand the contract well so they don't try pull something on you.

Personally if it were me I would want the over sized 3rd stall. It's always nice to have the extra space. Just my opinion though.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Yellowchevy

I agree with all of this. Professionalism is important, just so they actually listen to you. Most builders are cowboys. Ask me how I know. I deal with claims like this, but on commercial projects, all day.

Is this a McWhinney project? Text/Call me if you want. I may know the super if it is a local GC.

The bottom line is: your builder can't change the CDs once they are agreed upon like this. The question that remains is how to proceed. Notify them professionally, in writing, with supporting documents and proof of delivery (CC your attorney).

 

[NinjaMax]

No. If its in the C.D.s, you are entitled to it at the agreed upon price and schedule. That isn't being a jerk. Owners of construction projects are entitled to changes to contracts, so long as equitable adjustment is made, due to the nature of the industry. There are exceptions to that and triggers that change the nature of the work based on the type of changes made. This is not any of those...

What I would not do is wait to notify them of the changes they have made by not building to your design.



I agree with all of this. Professionalism is important, just so they actually listen to you. Most builders are cowboys. Ask me how I know. I deal with claims like this, but on commercial projects, all day.

Is this a McWhinney project? Text/Call me if you want. I may know the super if it is a local GC.

The bottom line is: your builder can't change the CDs once they are agreed upon like this. The question that remains is how to proceed. Notify them professionally, in writing, with supporting documents and proof of delivery (CC your attorney).

Bennett, how does this look from there side? is the development responsible for the mistake? or is the builders? we have been getting jerked around the whole time. I'm starting to get past the point of being a professional about this situation. After the garage issue came up i really got the "i want to F#@$ these guys" attitude, Is that the right approach, probably not. But all the "delays" and placing alot of the blame on my custom additions for the delays. At some point making up the difference in cost and materials becomes minuscule and becomes more about making a point to get it right.

 

[Mile_high]

Bennett, how does this look from there side? is the development responsible for the mistake? or is the builders? we have been getting jerked around the whole time. I'm starting to get past the point of being a professional about this situation. After the garage issue came up i really got the "i want to F#@$ these guys" attitude, Is that the right approach, probably not. But all the "delays" and placing alot of the blame on my custom additions for the delays. At some point making up the difference in cost and materials becomes minuscule and becomes more about making a point to get it right.

Builder. The developers are responsible for land supply, entitlement, infrastructure, and so on. The builder is just that. They only build. The developer has a hand in all of it, but isn't liable for all actions of the other parties such as builder and brokers. Of course, there are no bright line rules and this isn't the only way it can go. Oftentimes a developer will own a "home company" that functions as the builder. Most developers also have licensed brokers in house or on contract. There are changes in fiduciary responsibility based on contractual arrangements between the participants.

What rights you have are based on your contract documents. I would assume there is a changes clause in it. Find it and read it. They usually allow the owner to make unilateral changes in general scope of work without the consent of the contractor. Contractors have a duty to perform, but are entitled to "equitable adjustment" to contract time and/or price.

A variation from defined scope of work is a change. Work inconsistent with stated assumptions is a change. Be careful here, because the frame of reference is the contract and that includes implied contract obligations and incorporated technical documents. That can include documents referenced to, but not included in, the document. This may be things such as CC&Rs or the HOA agreement. They may have rules on garages.

What specifically has been done about the addition of the garage? If it is in the contract or the contract references the specific plans you have you should have enough.

Honestly, SF tract build projects are a production job. They are focused on punching them out fast. It probably got lost in the shuffle. Now it is important that you do not accept responsibility for any changes in schedule that isn't yours. Did you agree to a schedule before they began construction? I assume they didn't give you a start date, substantial completion date, or date of closeout. This type of project isn't usually run like that.

 

[NinjaMax]

well, i had to google half the terms you used lol, but im digging through my contract right now looking for those items you pointed out. As for the change order, i have a TON of paper work on that. As for start date, completion date, and closeout. Im looking right now. We just went over all the blueprints with the sup around the end of jan. So i know for a fact he has all the current prints, We discussed the garage at that meeting.

 

[Mile_high]

well, i had to google half the terms you used lol, but im digging through my contract right now looking for those items you pointed out. As for the change order, i have a TON of paper work on that. As for start date, completion date, and closeout. Im looking right now. We just went over all the blueprints with the sup around the end of jan. So i know for a fact he has all the current prints, We discussed the garage at that meeting.

Good! If it is documented properly, you should be able to get your garage or a reduced price. Record of that meeting will go a long way as well. I will help with any other questions that come up if it is within my abilities. :thumb:

Pro Tip: If you do end up building the third bay, get yourself 220 out there for a welder and bigass compressor.

 

[NinjaMax]

lol, way ahead of you, got 220 (hopefully they didnt forget it)

they have already framed and started the roof. So im pretty sure we are slightly beyond fixing it. These guys are ninjas doing the building. Everyday they have SOO much more done.

im going to txt you some pics in a little while. Let me know what you think

 

[hondarider552]

My builder did this to us when we built our house here in AZ. Paid for a extended garage (+4'+) where my single cab sits and didn't get it. we have a 4 car garage, all are extended except one. Found this out after they poured the concrete and wood sticks went up. Bitched at them and said we paid for this so give us some interior shit for free. They knocked off the price of the additional Granite that we had picked out so it was actually a better deal in the end, and, my truck still fits just fine, being a single cab, but, at the time I had my crew cab which is when I would have needed the extra room. I also got 220 in the garage when I decide to put a lift in there.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

Read your contract and all the fine print very carefully... 6mo is actually a very short time frame for a "custom" home

Is there a performance guarantee? How about a performance clause; ie a contingency that says they "could" take 2yrs??? Not meeting deadlines is pretty standard in residential construction, and usually builders have themselves covered in the fine print. As aggravating as it is, it's pretty standard.

I know one thing fer sure. That is if you have actual blueprints for the differences you wanted, they're screwed. An inspector won't pass the home untill the prints are again changed. The home MUST be built to print! Period, no exceptions!

If this is a development that has 3 or four plans, from a "big" developer that builds neighborhoods and communities, they typically have a dedicated framer or groups of contractors who's been with them a while. Which is usually good. However sometimes you get the crew who's seen the print/building plan so many times they've actually memorized it. Seriously.
So he sees the plan number and the print never sees the site. When you get the occasional crew that's set in their ways like that, having change orders or in this case a pre-build change of plan, it can become problematic very quickly.

To have both the foundation and framing built wrong tells me the concrete guy was the culprit in this case, then the framer just built it to the concrete, they're both in the wrong as the framer should've noticed the foundation wasn't to print and brought it to the builders attention. Unfortunately, times are so tight, guys just wanna get paid and bringing it up would've meant no pay for them.

Personally, I'd tell the contractor ASAP, cuz if there is a plan that shows the build differently than it's built, it could mean it won't make it through final inspection and you won't be able to move in when it's done.

At this point, I might just try to negotiate a different lot and a sweet deal, try and make them honor the price you've already negotiated for this home and get the bigger lot you wanted and as many upgrades as possible for your inconvenience.

 

[NinjaMax]

Here it is..this is the one we went over with the sup..the doors are facing the left, top section is the 3rd car. To the left of the door is a width..

 

[NinjaMax]

Better shot

 

[NinjaMax]

Here is the final elevation drawing

 

[Mile_high]

Read your contract and all the fine print very carefully... 6mo is actually a very short time frame for a "custom" home

I just built some 2100-2300SF single family homes in 152 days on average less than 20 miles from OP's location.

Is there a performance guarantee? How about a performance clause; ie a contingency that says they "could" take 2yrs??? Not meeting deadlines is pretty standard in residential construction, and usually builders have themselves covered in the fine print. As aggravating as it is, it's pretty standard.

Construction law in Colorado would allow me to take a builder to church if someone drug their feet for two years in almost all cases. Abandonment rights are generally reserved for the owner. If a builder shows apparent inability to perform, even without evidence of inability, owners may be able to can them.

I know one thing fer sure. That is if you have actual blueprints for the differences you wanted, they're screwed. An inspector won't pass the home untill the prints are again changed. The home MUST be built to print! Period, no exceptions!

Probably.


No.

To have both the foundation and framing built wrong tells me the concrete guy was the culprit in this case, then the framer just built it to the concrete, they're both in the wrong as the framer should've noticed the foundation wasn't to print and brought it to the builders attention.

The management and direction of subs is the sole responsibly of the general contractor.

, times are so tight, guys just wanna get paid and bringing it up would've meant no pay for them.

That isn't the case in the area in which NinjaMax is building.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

I've built 1200sq ft cookie cutters from digging ground to move in ready in 65 days, and I've spent 18mo just forming the foundation and framing full custom hand cut everything 8,000sq ft "legacy" builds.

Without an amended plan, it wouldn't pass inspection in Wa.
Period
If there is a performance clause, as long as the builder is in contact with the buyer and the bank, you could take them to church every Sunday, the contract is solid as long as it's signed.

Subs don't get paid if they point out issues that take time to amend, amendments don't happen overnight, however if they don't get pointed out and you "finish" you get paid

The contractor only picks up the phone hires a sub and tells the sub where to go, the inspectors make sure they did their job right, at least in Wa State. They inspect every damn aspect of the job from the ground work on, and they use tape measurers, if something's off it doesn't pass.

The way you describe it, if a framer forgot to frame in a bathroom it'd be ok? Really? I don't think so...

 

[Hot COCOAL]

I'm not here to get into a pissing match, if things are really that lax in Co then that blows!

OP
Good luck with your home, I hope everything works out well for you

 

[yellowchevy]

Off topic but I HATE how they step back that 3rd stall SO BAD!!! Our house is like that and I don't like it. I'd rather have all 3 doors on the same plane. I know they do it for curb appeal and selling but it just looks dumb to me.

I've spent the last 6+ years building power plants and if we didn't follow the drawings we were screwed. Only way we could get away with it was if we contacted the vendor or engineer to get the drawings rev'd. I know the power industry is a different world than residential construction but they make drawings for a reason.

Whatever happened to people JUST DOING THEIR JOB!!! I ran into that everyday where people wouldn't do their job so I had to, pissed me off so bad.

Sorry for the off topic.

I hope it works out for you.

Yellowchevy