A guy brought me a 02 that just had injectors and cp3(used) installed by someone else and hasn't started sense. He said before the install that the truck just died going down the road. I have efi and the truck makes about 280 fuel psi so I don't think that it's firing the injectors. I have tried a ficm crank and cam sensors and checked all the grounds and batteries are good. Any ideas? Thanks I am thinking ecm.
Help: crank but no start
- Thread starter $chultz38
- Start date
I believe you can do either a VATS re-link or even just disabel the VATS with EFI... Even if just temporary it can be done and undone.
As far as your fuel pressure goes, thats not enough!!!!
If all is true about the story the guy gave you then it sounds as if maybe theres air getting in. Regardless, thats not enough pressure to fire the injectors. When im monitoring a cranking condition I dont see the motor fire until about 900 PSI.
I would say first try to pressurize the tank with about 10-15 PSI of air pressure and see if it starts pushing out fuel anywhere in the fuel system. If fue can get out, then air can be sucked in without effort. If you see no problems then I would move onto a return test to see if maybe its injectors.... Who knows, maybe they were never changed to begine with.
I would almost rule out the CP3 and electronics at this point in the game but they could be a issue further down the road if all the previous checks out.
Hope this helps, let us know.
As far as your fuel pressure goes, thats not enough!!!!
If all is true about the story the guy gave you then it sounds as if maybe theres air getting in. Regardless, thats not enough pressure to fire the injectors. When im monitoring a cranking condition I dont see the motor fire until about 900 PSI.
I would say first try to pressurize the tank with about 10-15 PSI of air pressure and see if it starts pushing out fuel anywhere in the fuel system. If fue can get out, then air can be sucked in without effort. If you see no problems then I would move onto a return test to see if maybe its injectors.... Who knows, maybe they were never changed to begine with.
I would almost rule out the CP3 and electronics at this point in the game but they could be a issue further down the road if all the previous checks out.
Hope this helps, let us know.
Also. just because the primer is hard does not rule out air in the lines. You can pressurize air to the point where the primer is hard but you still wont be able to build the pressure needed to fire the injectors and therefore purge out the air. If the injectors where in fact changed then I would almost bet that there is a crap load of air in the rails.
I know im probably going to get bashed for saying this but you can (with common sense) have someone crank the engine and then shoot small amounts of Butane into the intake. This will fire the engine and spin the CP3 fast enough to purge air out of the lines. You may have to do it a few times but I would suggest just keep spraying once its fired so that you dont get that knock from starting it this way each time.
I know im probably going to get bashed for saying this but you can (with common sense) have someone crank the engine and then shoot small amounts of Butane into the intake. This will fire the engine and spin the CP3 fast enough to purge air out of the lines. You may have to do it a few times but I would suggest just keep spraying once its fired so that you dont get that knock from starting it this way each time.
["I would suggest just keep spraying once its fired so that you dont get that knock from starting it this way each time."]
Your fkn kidding right??? Had a customer try and do ^^^ just what was stated above.. I have a pic of 16 bent push rods if you want to see it! There are things that need to be done before using any other fuel then diesel.
Your fkn kidding right??? Had a customer try and do ^^^ just what was stated above.. I have a pic of 16 bent push rods if you want to see it! There are things that need to be done before using any other fuel then diesel.
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Perhaps I should have clarified my sentence a little better... When I said keep spraying, I meant just enough to keep a constant RPM. Not enough to fill the cylinder with fluid!!! (Read prior... WITH COMMON SENSE)
I am assuming that when you said you had someone try this before they used ether??? I dont recommend using ether at all because of the fact that it has a higher evaporating temp than butane and therefore is at a more liquid state when its being taken into the cylinder. This is where all the nightmare stories have come from. By using Butane, its already at a gaseous state the second it hits the intake duct let alone the cylinder. This prevents any of the cylinders from getting a massive dose of fuel and therefore hydro-locking a cylinder and bending the shit out of a rod.
This tip was given to me by a number of certified diesel mechanics including GM techs, CAT techs, and Kenworth techs and all with the same reasoning I just gave. I came across this advice when I first got my DMAX and it had bad injectors and wouldnt start without an injectable. I wasnt about to start shooting ether into it after all the stories I read about on the forums and so I was looking for advice and this is what I found. I started my truck for about 3 months this way without any issues until I was able to get my injectors so I have to at least suggest the advice as it was proven for me.
I'm GM and ASE certified and I would never shoot anything into the intake. Proper diagnosis with the scan tool is the correct and, in my opinion, the only way to figure out a no start. He already said it wasn't making fuel pressure. So either air in the supply lines, injector's returning too much, or failing CP3.
I'm not doubting anyones experience here but the only reason injectables have gotten such a bad rap is because this world lacks common sense anymore. I'm willing to bet that nearly 75% or more of the problems that have ever been made from this scenario are people who just opened their intake duct and just started spraying without even thinking of what there doing and end up spraying too much which is very easy to do considering it only takes a fraction of a second to spray enough.
I will double check with these guys today and report back. They are all Diesel techs and have had their jobs since I was a kid so I have to respect that they know what their doing. But as I said, I will double check.
In the meantime, the diagnosis procedures I outlined would find his problem which is probably just an air issue.
I will double check with these guys today and report back. They are all Diesel techs and have had their jobs since I was a kid so I have to respect that they know what their doing. But as I said, I will double check.
In the meantime, the diagnosis procedures I outlined would find his problem which is probably just an air issue.
I don't understand why you would need to spray something in the intake when we already know its not making fuel pressure. The next step would be either checking for air in the supply side or checking injector return rates.
I was told that this simply turns the CP3 fast enough to create enough hydraulic pressure to force out the air. This poor guy has probably just got a crap load of air in the driver's side rail in which he needs to untighten the forward high pressure injection line to bleed it out. Using butane is just much quicker.
I'm betting though that if the repairs mentioned where actually made that its just trapped air or air seeping in probably from either the filter housing or quick connect fittings.
I'm betting though that if the repairs mentioned where actually made that its just trapped air or air seeping in probably from either the filter housing or quick connect fittings.
Not trying to come off as a dick, I'm just saying. So looking back at the original issue. The truck suddenly died while driving. Customer installed injectors and a CP3 and truck still doesn't start. Sounds like it was mis-diagnosed in the first place. My bet would still be with air getting into the fuel supply side. Where is the fuel level at?
X2
When I did my injectors, it took less than 30 seconds of cranking (2 sets of 15) before it fired, with no injectibles at all. There is a different problem than air remaining in the lines from the injector job.
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Well, at least we agree here on that. LOL!
After I did my injectors/cp3 I didnt need injectables either. Just cranked about ten seconds and it fired. I also agree that I think it was mis-diagnosed to begine with.
So an update-I finally got it running! I should back up and say that when I said it had 280 psi that was after cranking and letting it sit and was trying to say the filter and hoses were all good coming from the tank all the way to the cp3 and not drawing air after testing. It had enough cranking psi to fire the injectors way over the 1450 they need. The RPMs would work half the time. I wasn't sure how to check the cam sensor as it was showing missed counts. I had power to the FICM so I thought it could be not working. That's why I tried different sensors and the FICM. The grounds were all tight and clean. The reluctor wheel was tight and the batteries were good. I had checked all the fuses and was at a loss and was typing on my phone so my original post didn't make sense. The story about the injectors and the pump being changed out was a bad call for sure and that’s what pisses people off after paying a lot of money and not getting a running truck in return. Anyway long story short mice had chewed into the wires that go to the injectors in the loom by the turbo horn. I found a nest in the valley and started looking and found bare wires there and under the under hood fuse panel. Any way maybe it's time that I fill out my profile and get more Involved with the site. Thanks to the guys that tried to help!
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