Compressor Efficiency Problem
- Thread starter Killerbee
- Start date
It is designed to swap out with stock air box. It may well work with aftermarket boxes, but I won't test that statement.
I have already tested most aftermarket systems, they offer no added performance benefits, and I don't support them. Recently I was sent a pic of the compressor from using one of these (common) systems on a dirt road application, and it was riddled with FOD damage.
There is no benefit in departing from 1618C filtration, only heartache. That simplifies things a bit for me. If you want a serious improvement in performance, consider the true CAI, it dampens IAT extremely well, and leaves a stock clean appearance behind.
I have already tested most aftermarket systems, they offer no added performance benefits, and I don't support them. Recently I was sent a pic of the compressor from using one of these (common) systems on a dirt road application, and it was riddled with FOD damage.
There is no benefit in departing from 1618C filtration, only heartache. That simplifies things a bit for me. If you want a serious improvement in performance, consider the true CAI, it dampens IAT extremely well, and leaves a stock clean appearance behind.
I have to disagree to an extent, recently at the track I logged a LB7 with an aftermarket system, and a LMM with a factory system on 1/4 mile runs.......The aftermarket intake provided significantly lower IAT's than the stock intake system on the LMM. Not that it has anything to do with filtration, but as far as performance applications, I'd rather have the one with the cooler IAT's :cool2:
Larry, you can't compare 2 different intakes on 2 different trucks, and make a conclusion about IAT dampening. ???
On another note, this is what one aftermarket intake did to one off-road work application.
Is filtration efficiency important? Who knows, nobody inspects there compressor. Just making a point.
On another note, this is what one aftermarket intake did to one off-road work application.
Is filtration efficiency important? Who knows, nobody inspects there compressor. Just making a point.
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To me that looks too much like work - lol. I work on T58 helicopter engines for a living and would have to blend out all those knicks with a jewelers' file.
I was assured it was just a neglected AFE on a dirt road work application. Makes a good case for the stock element. It has 10x the filtration area.
when a gauze or foam filter gets loaded up, the turbo just pulls big stuff through it...I guess.
when a gauze or foam filter gets loaded up, the turbo just pulls big stuff through it...I guess.
On another note, this is what one aftermarket intake did to one off-road work application.
Is filtration efficiency important? Who knows, nobody inspects there compressor. Just making a point.
The aftermarket intake may have been the final factor in this problem, but the true root of the problem was owner neglect, he should have checked his filter more frequently. Kinda makes you wonder what his oil looked like, he probably didnt maintain regular change intervals on that either.
some people pick these vehicles up used, and have no idea how bad this kind of thing is. simply it is a non-issue if you don't use these candiadates. But I can talk exhaustively on this topic, the public just doesn't seem to want to change, it likes colors and dishonest claims.
IMO, the root of the problem is corporate greed, the need to sell a product for an application that stands no chance to benefit the consumer.
http://members.cox.net/td-eoc/INTAKES.doc
IMO, the root of the problem is corporate greed, the need to sell a product for an application that stands no chance to benefit the consumer.
http://members.cox.net/td-eoc/INTAKES.doc
KB how do you feel the OEM filter stacks up for 500+ hp applications where we are under the hood all the time anyway and don't mind cleaning and oiling a filter? At those levels does the OEM start to creat enough resistance to hurt power? If so which brand of aftermarket intake would you recommend to get the best flow without sacrificing filtration (given the filter is going to be well-kept)? I will be using an LBZ inlet with my Cheetah and have been looking at S&B and Volant.
I've used the factory, the factory swiss cheesed, AFE II, Volant with Scoop (and modified LLY turbo inlet) and now have the LBZ Banks with Ram Air along with the LBZ turbo inlet. In my opinion, the Banks/LBZ setup is the best I have used. I am under the hood all the time and keep up with the maintenance, so I dont see using the aftermarket as a problem. The Banks setup (on my truck at least) has provided the best IAT's..........
you know that is a good question, that I have an opinion on. The surface area limitations of the aftermarket elements, demands porosity. The more air that you want to move, the harder the turbo pulls on any contaminates that can come through...and they do come through. This is NEVER tested in reality. What you do see frequently claimed, is the pressure drop of the (new) element under these high flow conditions. No mention of filtration efficiency.
If longevity simply has no value, then use whatever you want...or no filter for that matter. If you get an ET change, let us know, but I doubt you will.
The stock 1618C element has more surface area than the hood itself, and even at 500 HP, air has an average velocity of 3 mph across it, slow enough to avoid this "pull through".
What is really impressive, is the comparison between a "dirty" stock element and a dirty aftermarket element. The stock has lots less resistance. The aftermarket is polluting the charge with contaminants.
Have heard of some of these elements collapsing under the Hoovers pull.
But cleaning an element is fun I have heard. I'm lazy:baby:
If longevity simply has no value, then use whatever you want...or no filter for that matter. If you get an ET change, let us know, but I doubt you will.
The stock 1618C element has more surface area than the hood itself, and even at 500 HP, air has an average velocity of 3 mph across it, slow enough to avoid this "pull through".
What is really impressive, is the comparison between a "dirty" stock element and a dirty aftermarket element. The stock has lots less resistance. The aftermarket is polluting the charge with contaminants.
Have heard of some of these elements collapsing under the Hoovers pull.
But cleaning an element is fun I have heard. I'm lazy:baby:
So we should just make a bigger air box with 2 stock elements and flow as much as we want - lol. Thanks for the input Larry and KB. I don't run on dirt road unless there is a sled behind me and with all the other stuff I do to get set-up for the track and/or sled then back to street mode (I tend to change my tires and rims about 4 times a week) cleaning the filter doesn't seem like a hassle.
Side note on CAIs being a rim is all the ricers you see that get a cheap kit or a build your own kit and have their filter in the open engine compartment. I worked at Auto Zone for a while and would always try to talk them out of it and/or laugh at them and point out that they are getting rid of a part that an engineer got paid big bucks to design for the needs of their car and putting on a filter 8 inches from their exhaust manifold - when they have no engine or tuning modifications that demand any more air.:rofl:
Side note on CAIs being a rim is all the ricers you see that get a cheap kit or a build your own kit and have their filter in the open engine compartment. I worked at Auto Zone for a while and would always try to talk them out of it and/or laugh at them and point out that they are getting rid of a part that an engineer got paid big bucks to design for the needs of their car and putting on a filter 8 inches from their exhaust manifold - when they have no engine or tuning modifications that demand any more air.:rofl:
I've got a question, ever since I installed the LBZ....... bell,tube, and airbox it is pulling my (change filter) vacuum gauge at least half way shut. The truck it came off only had 333 miles on it. Does anyone else see this going on?
I would take that as a good sign. It means that the suction that is now getting to the filter instead of being wasted getting the air flow around the crappy LLY inlet. Sounds like a better filter may be in order.
Or the air moving over the change indicator orifice is moving fast enough to create a low and there for the atmosphere is pushing the indicator in.
I've got a question, ever since I installed the LBZ....... bell,tube, and airbox it is pulling my (change filter) vacuum gauge at least half way shut. The truck it came off only had 333 miles on it. Does anyone else see this going on?
how much boost and rpm are you running?
remove the element altogether and test again. If it is still pulling toward red, trim off every other separator vane.
Back on the main theme, now that the primary heat source is id'd, the next step is tuning the VGT to include a software wastegate. This takes care of the other key component of Thermal Feedback, eroding Pressure Ratio.
The wastegate of the earlier IHI is truly what keeps the turbo operating within sane parameters. In fact, if you look closely at IAT boost, there is a mechanism that serves to exacerbate TF. As IAT goes up, LLY commanded boost increases. Ouch.
The wastegate of the earlier IHI is truly what keeps the turbo operating within sane parameters. In fact, if you look closely at IAT boost, there is a mechanism that serves to exacerbate TF. As IAT goes up, LLY commanded boost increases. Ouch.