C3 backing plate mods (mainly for Mike's input)

MaxPF

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Jan 12, 2011
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Ok, since I have acquired an extra C3 backing plate with the parts trans I got, I started measuring stuff and tinkering - I can never leave shit alone (anyone else have this problem?). Since only 4 C3 frictions sucks (or does it?), I looked into modding the C3 backing plate to accept 6 full thickness stock clutches. What I have in mind is cutting down the apply face WITHOUT cutting into the 3 ears that support the return springs. After the face is cut down the appropriate amount, I would re cut the oil channel groove using a ball end mill (CNC mills are the shiznit :D). Thus, the plate would still work like stock, with the distance between the ears and the apply plate remaining the same as stock. The ring gear is splined all the way to the surface that contacts the 3 pads on the backing plate, and I have confirmed that I can indeed fit 6 stock thickness frictions and 5 stock thickness steels this way.

By concern is that the backing plate will be too thin and lose rigidity, coning upwards under apply pressure and not adequately supporting the clutches. In order to fit 2 extra frictions and steels requires ~.400" (I would need to do a stackup to get the precise amount) be removed from the backing plate. I don't remember the exact figure, but this would leave the backing plate only ~.210" thick - stock thickness is .610ish or so, which is nice and thick and RIGID.

The question is, is that TOO thin? Maybe it would be better to only knock .200" off and just run one extra friction and steel as a compromise? Or should I treat it like a sore pecker and not screw with it at all?

Keep in mind I do have an extra, so if I scrap it or it isn't workable I can easily revert to the stock 4 friction stackup. This is just something I would like to try IF it isn't going to excessively weaken the backing plate...
 

IOWA LLY

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Feb 23, 2007
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.210 is way to thin IMO. Machining the C3 backing plate to accept 1 additional OEM friction and steel has been done for a while now, and it works well.:thumb:
 

Mike L.

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I wouldn't go more than 1 extra either as that top plate is also a thrust plate for teh P1 planetary unit.

Actualy it is not. The planet better never get that high. The planet cannot get any higher than the C3 clutches will allow when applied as the ring gear will stop it.
 

Mike L.

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I wouild not machine the plate any thinner than .400. I recommend using a .100 spacer under the ring gear to support extra clutches. I would also use a hardened spring plate instead of the soft factory plate for less deflection on apply.
 

ChevyTruckGuy78

Twins done Now for trans
Feb 7, 2010
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wish i had the cash to bring the truck to u mike for my trans. hey why not open up a shop here on the east coast??
 

MaxPF

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Jan 12, 2011
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The material the backing plates are made of is some foul shit. It's some kind of sintered material, but it seems to be VERY porous. The darn thing smoked and bled trans fluid, and getting a good finish without grinding isn't happening
doah.gif


I think I would rather just buy an Alto power pack rather than turn any more of these used stock plates... :baby: I'm sure Mike is laughing at me, since he has BTDT :D
 

THEFERMANATOR

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Feb 16, 2009
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The material the backing plates are made of is some foul shit. It's some kind of sintered material, but it seems to be VERY porous. The darn thing smoked and bled trans fluid, and getting a good finish without grinding isn't happening
doah.gif


I think I would rather just buy an Alto power pack rather than turn any more of these used stock plates... :baby: I'm sure Mike is laughing at me, since he has BTDT :D

I figured this would happen. I didn't see how you could machine it for less than the $120 you can buy a C3 power pack for.
 

MaxPF

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Jan 12, 2011
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Mesa, AZ
I figured this would happen. I didn't see how you could machine it for less than the $120 you can buy a C3 power pack for.

C3 power packs are $120 for a 5 speed. For a 6 speed they are $300 because they have a new apply plate, a new backing plate, a new apply piston, and thrust washer.
 

THEFERMANATOR

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Feb 16, 2009
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C3 power packs are $120 for a 5 speed. For a 6 speed they are $300 because they have a new apply plate, a new backing plate, a new apply piston, and thrust washer.

Double check with MIKE L, but I bleive ALTO screwed up there catalog and lists the 06+ as what used to come in the stage 4 SUNCOAST kit. If you check the breakdown it lists 6 frictions instead of 5. I know a stock 5 speed is 4, and I believe a stock 6 speed is also 4. They list the same clutches and steels for a 5 and 6 speed trans in the aftermarket catalogs I have seen, so i don't see why a 5 speed C3 pack won't fit. I can go measure out a 5 speed stock pack and you can see if it is the same as your 6 speeds C3 pack to see if they both use the same pack height.
 

MaxPF

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Jan 12, 2011
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Mesa, AZ
That makes sense. The 5 speeds and 6 speeds do indeed both have 4 frictions in the C3 pack, and you are right about the same thickness frictions and steels being used in both, according to Alto's catalog anyway. I was puzzled as well about the difference between the 5 and 6 speed power packs, but what you said about a catalog faux-pas makes sense. For $300 it is worth machining the backing plate, for $130 it isn't ;)

From talking with Mike and doing some research, it almost looks like the biggest issue for a relatively low power app like mine isn't the holding power of the C3's, but the fact they get applied and de-applied a lot and get little oil. Im thinking Mike's external oiler would be of more benefit in my case than an Alto power pack...

You know, I was looking at my case earlier, and I noticed the main line pressure port going to the VB is right there next to the large opening that exposes the bottom of the C3's. I wonder if anyone has thought about drilling and tapping into the side of that port and running a small steel line over to the C3's, with a little nozzle on the end to spray 'em. The only advantage would be the elimination of external plumbing. Don't know if it would work worth a crap or not tho...
 
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Mike L.

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Spraying the bottom of the C3's doesn't help. Need to spray the top.
 
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