Allison 5sp: Build 2.0

DAVe3283

DAVe3283

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Sep 3, 2009
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Boise, ID, USA
RIP Allison

IMG_20151001_170853.jpg

Had my transmission built in June of 2012, and I put 18,138 miles on it. The last ~2,000 were with my built motor, but it was already starting to shift badly before the motor build.

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Besides the obvious visible damage, the splines expanded so much you can't get the copper washer off:
IMG_20151001_170759.jpg
It appears it was skipping teeth, until finally it wouldn't engage at all. At least I will have a cool paperweight for my desk now :thumb:

Additionally, a couple springs were broken inside the valve body. That can't have been helping anything either :eek:

If all goes well, I get the truck back tomorrow, and I can hit the drag strip and see how much power I am actually making. From the carnage, I appear to be making more than the ~550 HP I thought I was. I'm terrible at estimating this kind of thing. Big stupid cam, SoCal Stage 1 heads, and a S366 making 55 PSI. Any guesses on my MPH at 8,500 lbs race weight?
 

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DAVe3283

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
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Boise, ID, USA
mike diesel said:
The weight of the truck didn't help those parts live either.

What fueling? And how hot are the tunes?
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Exergy 100% overs and a 12mm Stroker pump. Running around 1300 us pulse, but it has seen as high as 1600. Anything over that just makes more smoke.
Mike L. said:
Big 3-4 tie up there.
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Yeah, I remember one of them distinctly. C3 clutch was also totally fried inside, but I didn't get any photos. I would guess the failed springs in the valve body were the root cause of the tie-ups, but I didn't know much about the inner workings of the Allison.
 
Mike L.

Mike L.

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Without seeing the build specs, it's only guessing. Depending on who tuned it is another possible factor. Broken trim springs is another factor. If the trans was acting weird and clunking, it should have been addressed right away. Further driving under power would have finished it in short order.
 
Mike L.

Mike L.

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Evan@LimitlessDiesel said:
For the specs of the build it looks like a tuning issue.
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Too soon to tell Evan. Kits rarely fit properly and people just throw what they got from the kit into the trans. This last statement goes for DIY and so called trans pros. TCM tunes by dumbshit tuners will cause this. Playing with defuel is a total mistake. If any tuner tries to sell you guys a trans TCM tune; beware. You will lose your trans in short order and your tuner won't give a rats ass about it. He will continue to make his money on other people.
 
Evan@InglewoodTrans

Evan@InglewoodTrans

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Mike L. said:
Too soon to tell Evan. Kits rarely fit properly and people just throw what they got from the kit into the trans. This last statement goes for DIY and so called trans pros. TCM tunes by dumbshit tuners will cause this. Playing with defuel is a total mistake. If any tuner tries to sell you guys a trans TCM tune; beware. You will lose your trans in short order and your tuner won't give a rats ass about it. He will continue to make his money on other people.
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Agreed I edited my post. I spoke to soon before reading the rest of the posts in the thread
 
DAVe3283

DAVe3283

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Sep 3, 2009
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First, I'm not coming in here to point fingers or place blame. Just sharing some carnage, which most of us have seen at one point or another.

The specs on the build are attached. Mike, my dad was the one to drop the truck off, and he said you liked my tune back then. I've been tuning the truck since I bought it. The last ~2000 miles have had Rob's tuning, but that probably wasn't the problem; he knows his stuff.

I'm fully willing to admit something in my tuning is at fault, but the broken trim springs could well be at fault. Additionally, the first 10k miles on the trans were perfect. I have never touched any of the defuel/torque tables in my tunes, they are stock. I might now be at the point they need touched, but I don't know enough to adjust defuel. Can leaving them stock at this power level hurt the trans?

Again, I'm not coming in here trying to point fingers. These things happen, it's a heavy truck and I work it hard. That being said, if someone wants to look over my tune and tell me what I'm doing wrong, I'd love to learn. I was hoping Rob's tune would be unlocked so I could learn some about defuel, but it was locked. There are a few (minor) things about Rob's tune I want to change, which is why I keep playing with my tune.
 

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DAVe3283

DAVe3283

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Sep 3, 2009
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Boise, ID, USA
Mike L. said:
Without seeing the build specs, it's only guessing. Depending on who tuned it is another possible factor. Broken trim springs is another factor. If the trans was acting weird and clunking, it should have been addressed right away. Further driving under power would have finished it in short order.
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I agree, I should have had it looked at, but the tie-up only happened once, years ago. It would go into reverse hard every other shift like clockwork, but all other shifts were normal (until it suddenly died on the way home from work). I guess I never realized how serious it was. I'm a hard learner, it would appear :banghead:
 
Chevy1925

Chevy1925

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Don't touch the defuel. Mine is all stock on the 600hp tune and the 800hp tune. If it don't shift smooth and click off shifts like stock, something is wrong. The first time my built trans died, it was due to "no defuel" when the heated debate of having or not having it was going on (having it won lol). It also started to twist my hub. Second time was due to my converter coming apart, plugging the filter and depriving my clutches of fluid as I still towed and played in the truck. With stock defuel, my shifts are smooth as silk and my hub has not twisted any more.
 
DAVe3283

DAVe3283

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Sep 3, 2009
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Chevy1925 said:
Don't touch the defuel. Mine is all stock on the 600hp tune and the 800hp tune. If it don't shift smooth and click off shifts like stock, something is wrong. The first time my built trans died, it was due to "no defuel" when the heated debate of having or not having it was going on (having it won lol). It also started to twist my hub. Second time was due to my converter coming apart, plugging the filter and depriving my clutches of fluid as I still towed and played in the truck. With stock defuel, my shifts are smooth as silk and my hub has not twisted any more.
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That's what I thought, and why I've never touched it. Glad to hear that. I will continue to not touch it :)
 
DAVe3283

DAVe3283

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Pucked the truck up last night. I had the shop loosen up the converter a hair while they were in there, which helped a good deal with streetabality. It gets on the charger in town a lot quicker, and eliminated most of the smoke in the process. I'm no longer "that guy" when I want to pass someone.

And it shifts like butter again! With the clean shifts and easier lighting of the turbo, it is fun to drive again, even with the stupid cam I have in it.
 
DAVe3283

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
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Boise, ID, USA
An update on the trans. I sadly didn't get to the track due to an issue with TCC lockup, which is being addressed now. I'll have to run on the 18th instead.

The shop did confirm, though, the TransGo springs failure in the trim solenoids that caused the poor shifts that caused the tie-ups that killed the hard parts. They sent the springs back so TransGo, but odds are it was just a fluke bad set.

And now I know what is considered a "normal" vs. "bad" shift on a built trans, so hopefully I can catch this kind of thing earlier before it causes this level of carnage.
 
Mike L.

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DAVe3283 said:
An update on the trans. I sadly didn't get to the track due to an issue with TCC lockup, which is being addressed now. I'll have to run on the 18th instead.

The shop did confirm, though, the TransGo springs failure in the trim solenoids that caused the poor shifts that caused the tie-ups that killed the hard parts. They sent the springs back so TransGo, but odds are it was just a fluke bad set.

And now I know what is considered a "normal" vs. "bad" shift on a built trans, so hopefully I can catch this kind of thing earlier before it causes this level of carnage.
Click to expand...

This is why I built my own springs and use them in every unit I build.
 
Chevy1925

Chevy1925

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DAVe3283 said:
And now I know what is considered a "normal" vs. "bad" shift on a built trans, so hopefully I can catch this kind of thing earlier before it causes this level of carnage.
Click to expand...

same thing i learned long ago. i thought a hard 3-4th shift at WOT was normal in a built trans and it was really pissing me off. i have threads from 2010ish IIRC that ask about the bad shift i was getting. never got them fully fixed and shifting butter smooth till mike refreshed the trans the first time and steve tuned the truck. i was so damn giddy from the smooth shifts i had a really hard time staying off the throttle :D. its a great feelin aint it
 
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