Boring Cylinders with/without a Deck Plate

[LBZ]

Just wondering if it is really neccessary or not for a mild to moderate build-450-600hp daily driver.
My builder doesn't do it nor really seem to see the need to and he has built many many Dmax's and the one in his Pro Stock Diesel runs 8's and never had it done and hasn't had an issue.

Just wondering......

 

[DANIELI HD]

I would definitely have it finish honed with a deck plate if you plan on using head studs, overboring then honing is really only necessary if the cylinder walls are messed up. Check out this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cLjdr2GSwU I know its on a cummins but same concept. I hope this helps.

 

[LBZ]

Ya it only needs a finish hone. Which is why I am not sure that it requires a torq plate if I am not really removing much material. If I was going .010 or .020" over then I could see it being neccessary.

 

[hondarider552]

James had stock bore and also had line hone done on his engine @ socal.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

Any cylinder hone or bore, done properly, will utilize a plate. If i remember right, when you bore it you torque the plate, when you hone it you dont have to torque it down to full spec? Either way every time ive seen it done the tec used a plate.

 

[S Phinney]

The torque plate should be on during hone for sure. The purpose of using a plate is to get the cylinders as true as possible in it actual working environment. This will enable the engine to run more efficiently. If you don't want to go the extra steps to make the engine more efficient the why not just leave it stock?

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[blk smoke lb7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cLjdr2GSwU

 

[LBZ]

The torque plate should be on during hone for sure. The purpose of using a plate is to get the cylinders as true as possible in it actual working environment. This will enable the engine to run more efficiently. If you don't want to go the extra steps to make the engine more efficient the why not just leave it stock?

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My thoughts exactly. I haven't talked to my engine guy for awhile so maybe he has changed his tune about this and will make sure it gets done with a torq plate. I'm going to push for it either way because why not? Plus I would rather do it once and do it right.

That said though, I know many people swear up and down that you need to balance your engine or that you have to run an aftermarket dampner and yet lots of guys have not done these things and never had an issue and still made fairly good HP numbers. So really swim with current or go against, some things I think may just be on the edge of splitting hairs considering how these engines are set-up when they come from GM.

 

[S Phinney]

My thoughts exactly. I haven't talked to my engine guy for awhile so maybe he has changed his tune about this and will make sure it gets done with a torq plate. I'm going to push for it either way because why not? Plus I would rather do it once and do it right.

That said though, I know many people swear up and down that you need to balance your engine or that you have to run an aftermarket dampner and yet lots of guys have not done these things and never had an issue and still made fairly good HP numbers. So really swim with current or go against, some things I think may just be on the edge of splitting hairs considering how these engines are set-up when they come from GM.

Doing the little things are what makes the differences that enable someone to be the top performer. I know that you have heard it before "if it is worth doing it is worth doing right". Hell you could even throw a cup of dirt in with your oil change and still go out there and run well but who would be stupid enough to do that? You should balance the assembly. If you are not an extreme build a stock balancer would be fine. The added benefit of an aftermarket one is that it does a better job of absorbing harmonics and it stands much less of a chance of becoming defective at high HP/torque levels.

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[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

My thoughts exactly. I haven't talked to my engine guy for awhile so maybe he has changed his tune about this and will make sure it gets done with a torq plate. I'm going to push for it either way because why not? Plus I would rather do it once and do it right.

That said though, I know many people swear up and down that you need to balance your engine or that you have to run an aftermarket dampner and yet lots of guys have not done these things and never had an issue and still made fairly good HP numbers. So really swim with current or go against, some things I think may just be on the edge of splitting hairs considering how these engines are set-up when they come from GM.

So are you saying balancing the rotating assembly of a motor expected to make triple the power of its stock configuration is ''splitting hairs'' because of the way it came from the factory?

 

[x MadMAX DIESEL]

My machine shop has built atleast 3 duramaxs that I know of. He said he had a torque plate on it but im not sure if he really has one since it was only his 3rd. But it works so far so good.

 

[LBZ]

So are saying balancing the rotating assembly of a motor expected to make triple the power of its stock configuration is ''splitting hairs'' because of the way it came from the factory?

I'm not saying that in particular. I'm talking about stuff like hardened valve spring seats, billet hold downs, aftermarket pushrods. Do they help it last longer? Maybe. Are they neccessary? IMO absolutely not. Lots of folks, probably the majority on this board have got away with 550+hp engines for 100000 plus miles with nothing done to them internally. Except maybe head studs.

Balancing personally I think is better for the engine and how it runs.
But there are some reputable people on this board that have not balanced and made big power with no issues. And for quite some time too. Would I balance it if I was going for 1000hp, or even 800hp, you bet your ass I would! And I will in my build even though I'm not planning on making that much power. But I don't see it as being neccessary to make the engine run. Would I potentially be leaving engine life and power/efficiency on the table if I didn't, probably.

So really, the question is where does one draw the line? There have been lots of budget builds making the same HP as builds that have every bell and whistle thrown at them and didn't fail where the full blown builds have. Too many factors to really pinpoint why so maybe it's just the luck of the draw????

 

[Chevy1925]

I personally would balance it. its only gunna help longevity if you think about it. i know you have seen others do without it but if you put LB7 pistons in it (not saying you are, just an IF), a different crank and so on, you have stepped quite a ways away from what factory had given you.

I built my short block pretty cheap, more than most here probably have but i wouldnt go any cheaper other than loosing the main studs i put in. i only put them in cause i got a good deal on them. Guy did a line hone on the mains due to the ARP main studs i was putting in, torque plate honed my cylinders, magged the crank, put all new freeze plugs in, decked the block, cut my pistons, checked my heads, balanced my rotating assembly, and im sure a few other things im forgetting (im not fully awake yet lol). I was going for a reliable 700hp motor but i honetly dont even care to run that much power now. the 500hp+ tune i have now is plenty of fun for me. To me, everything i did i felt was essential for the power i wanted and so far its been running perfect! even if i was only goin for 500hp, i wouldnt go no less than i did other than main studs. keeping that assembly spining freely and with the least amount of harmonics as possible is only gunna help things last.

 

[DANIELI HD]

Luck will only get you so far I would get it honed with the plates, head studs, and balance the rotating assembly. Those three things are pretty cheap insurance when it comes to reliability. You dont have to throw every bell and whistle at it to have a reliable engine. I would also look into an oil cooler seeing as how it is the life blood of your engine. I think its funny blk smoke lb7 was thinking of the same video i posted:thumb:

 

[RPM Motorsports]

You guys have enough trucks up there to need a Tq plate hanging on the wall . They are less then $500 from guy, rent it out a few times, and it pays for itself. If you weren't so damn far away, I could let you use it.

 

[LBZ]

Well my plan for this engine I'm building isn't set in stone and the point of this thread was simply curiousity as to what guys have been getting done when they do their machining. I know I will balance it and I will want them to use a torq plate when it gets honed. As far as hard parts I'm using, that belongs in a different thread. Rest assured it will be getting all the right stuff where it is needed though. The poll seems to be speaking numbers as to what guys have been doing which is great and just what I wanted to know.
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[Burn Down]

I'm in the same boat as Dale... Except there isn't anyone up here in Alaska that even has a torque plate. So If I want it done this winter, I will have to buy one and hope the machine shop up here can handle it, or ship my block and rotating assembly to the states...

 

[dmax711]

The question I have is why wouldnt you do everything possible to prolong the life of an expensive built engine? If its being low on cash just wait, save up for another few months and do it rite the first time. If you build for a goal of 450-600 you are always going to be limited to that... OVERBUILD now so you can grow if your power needs go up.. To me, boring,honeing,balancing, main studs, head studs,keying cam and crank should be on everyones list.. I kno boring isnt ness. but why not start with a brand new bore when your at the machine shop anyways?

 

[dmax711]

And def use a tq plate.

 

[DMAXchris]

Ya it only needs a finish hone. Which is why I am not sure that it requires a torq plate if I am not really removing much material. If I was going .010 or .020" over then I could see it being neccessary.

If you cracked a piston you'll more than likely need an overbore.