03 LB7 swapped to LLY Heads

FarrouT

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Aug 17, 2021
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Hey Guys,
I've read 100s of threads regarding this swap & have lost connection to many that had a lot of good information. I have not seen the "I have seen the impossible" thread as it seems to have disappeared.
My 2003 LB7 died the usual open injector death & I have built a LL7 engine & installed it. I have seen most say you should run the LLY FICM but after conversations with the tech I have commissioned to do the EFI Live tuning on it I was convinced to use the LB7 FICM since I am using the rebuilt 64mm bored out mechanical waste gate turbo. Well, at this point the only way I can get it to run above idle at this point is to either disconnect the ECT sensor & send it into limp up to only 2000rpm for a short period or to connect a vacuum line to the Baro sensor and decrease the Baro pressure by 10hg. then it will hit turbo & rev out... not great... but at least it will go. He has loaded a a tune into it but it is no better. The injectors are simply over fueling the engine. Now he is suggesting what I said since the beginning and I should use the LLY FICM. This is a 2003, both FICMs pin out the exact same, the ECM however is quite different configurations & I have installed the LB7 wiring harness modified to connect to the LLY injectors since I have seen previous posts suggesting this is all that is needed.
Here is my question; Do I need to replace the original LB7 ECM if I install a LLY FICM. Can the LB7 ECM sing with the LLY FICM?
 

rfletes79

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Mar 5, 2010
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Galt, Ca 95632
Lly ecm, Lly ficm, Lly harnesses. Done, super easy. Oh you’ll have to change your cam&crank sensors, gpcm, nsbu again.

Have your Tuber tune out the vgt turbo for your non-vgt one. And while she’s in there fix your fuel gage and vats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Bdsankey

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As stated above, you need 100% LLY electronics (minus TCM) including the ECM, GPCM, FICM, cam/crank sensors etc. Tuning for the IHI is easy as your EFI guy would just calibrate it like a non-VGT and change the scaling for the fuel level sender.


If you use the LLY harness it's a super easy and simple swap in 03-04 LB7.
 

FarrouT

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Aug 17, 2021
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Damn! I've seen previous peaps do this with all LB7 electronics and get away with it. Have any of you gone that route?
I only ask because I have completed the job this way and now to switch everything to LLY has me less than overjoyed.

I've gone over the PIDs and the two that are severely out of wack are the "Main injection fuel rate" @ 28.13 and "Main injection command" @ 808.50 both at idle and they don't get better with speed. That's like, 4 times what I would expect to see.
I can't help but feel like the FICM is getting a bad reading from something making it flood the fuel to the engine.
 

Bdsankey

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Damn! I've seen previous peaps do this with all LB7 electronics and get away with it. Have any of you gone that route?
I only ask because I have completed the job this way and now to switch everything to LLY has me less than overjoyed.

I've gone over the PIDs and the two that are severely out of wack are the "Main injection fuel rate" @ 28.13 and "Main injection command" @ 808.50 both at idle and they don't get better with speed. That's like, 4 times what I would expect to see.
I can't help but feel like the FICM is getting a bad reading from something making it flood the fuel to the engine.

I've never seen it done with LB7 electronics so I can't help on that one. I'm not saying it can't be done on LB7 electronics as I don't know, just that I've not seen one completed with LB7 electronics.

The few I've done we always use the LLY electronics and have never had any issues like this.
 

FarrouT

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Aug 17, 2021
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Thanks guys;
one more question... now that you are convincing me that I HAVE to switch to the LLY ECM, I've gone over the what's left of my LLY harness and it appears the wiring harness for the ECM is separate from the engine harness. Is that correct?
 

Bdsankey

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Thanks guys;
one more question... now that you are convincing me that I HAVE to switch to the LLY ECM, I've gone over the what's left of my LLY harness and it appears the wiring harness for the ECM is separate from the engine harness. Is that correct?

Yes, the wiring from the bale connectors to the ECM/fuse box etc is separate and is usually sourced from the donor truck when you buy the parts for the swap.
 
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FarrouT

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Aug 17, 2021
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Thanks BD,
That was the one wiring harness I didn't get with that engine.

I really appreciate you input. I will update once this nightmare is over.
 

Chevy1925

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Oct 21, 2009
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the only way the LLY top end will run on all LB7 electronics is a custom tune. They did this many years ago and proved to be fairly involved but doable. im not 100% sure if there were any drivability quarks that came with it but it was posted that it "ran and drove well".

it is easier from a tuning stand point to do all lly electronics. anymore, with the change in lb7 injectors and the work required to do the lly conversion and its draw backs, id just stick to LB7. times have changed since this was all figured out.
 

FarrouT

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Aug 17, 2021
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Well..... That was quite the journey....
This all started with the LB7 #7 injector sticking open. That in turn took out the valves & piston in cylinder #7. Since this was the tow vehicle for our racing team we didn't have the luxury of stopping... as a matter of a fact I drove that baby for another 3000kms all over the province of Alberta before it finally said ENOUGH! Even though I changed that injector after the first trip, it was too late, the damage had been done. I changed the the oil after every drive because it was full of fuel. On the last part of the last race trip coming up our back alley the LB7 bottom end gave up. A rod bearing spun as I was pulling up my back ally coming home from the LAST race... I LOVE that truck!!!.
By that point I had already studied the conversion from LB7 to LLY extensively & there was a couple very informative threads & videos out there at that point showing how others had done it so I was off. I was lucky and found an 04.5 LLY with a blown head gasket in storage locally that came with wiring & ECM & FICM, nearly everything I needed to do the 03 to 05 Duramax swap. I had all the info from many others and the pieces I needed. I got the engine gasket set, a head stud set, new up & down pipes and too many other little trinkets to list. I decided I wanted to stick with the mechanical wastegate turbo but I had already sold the IHI turbo from my original LB7... so Kijiji here I come, I tracked down an other IHI turbo that ended up being cracked beyond repair but that put me onto a local shop that deals only in Duramax repairs he sold me another IHI that was in good shape. I had a new cartridge installed and had it bored out to 64mm and ordered in a Banks Big Head and put that on along with a PPE boost increase valve just for good measure.
Here's where SH*T went south. After talking to the tech at the Duramax shop, he convinced me to go with all LB7 electronics since I was going with the LB7 turbo system. He told me he had tuned a previous customers truck who had done a similar swap. So after a long conversation and since I was having him do the tune with his EFI live... I chose that path even though all the research I had done suggested that being that I had a 2003 the best way was to go with the LLY electronics. So on I went. There was a couple videos & threads on line at the time that showed people that had done it in LB7 and said they were successful, so away I went. I hacked up my LLY engine harness and modified my LB7 harness to go with the injector connectors for the LLY, I did an AMAZING job, it looks factory. I swapped the crank & cam sensors as mentioned in the threads. I modified the LLY fuel lines to work on the LB7 FICM. I installed the glow plug system that comes with the LB7 harness. It was a work of art, y'all would have been SO impressed! I also took all the injectors to be tested & replaced four of them since they were questionable & the others had recently been replaced before the LLY had been removed. A buddy had come into some bad luck & his LLY FICM had failed so I sold him mine for a song since I didn't need it.
Since I had already removed my LB7 engine from the truck to use needed parts I was sure to replace the torque convertor housing bolts on the Alison 1000 tranny to the updated bolts & washers, input seal, etc. and retorqued as described in the bulletins, replaced the torque convertor with a billet unit to be sure there was no future issues that way. New engine mounts, radiator, starter, intercooler hot pipe, Banks intake with scoop, all new transmission cooler and power steering lines. I spent a FORTUNE on this thing. Next, I installed the redone engine. That went pretty much as expected. LOTS of work, LOTS of time, but after a number of hours(days) It was finally in & ready to turn the key....
The 1st night... nothing, it would NOT start, I quit for the night and did NOT sleep. The next morning I went out, turned the key and it sputtered, next try it burped & then it STARTED... ran like SH*t, but it started. For the next two days I smoked out my neighborhood trying to get it smoothed out. It was DUMPING fuel into the cylinders, It would NOT rev above 1500 RPM willingly. I finally disconnected the ECT sensor and threw it into limp mode & it actually smoothed out & idled well, but still wouldn't run over 2200rpm. After studying the numbers & much deep thinking I connected the Barometric sensor to a vacuum pump telling the computer that atmospheric pressure was 10hg lower than it actually was so it would lean out the fuel. That worked, I was able to run it.... at operating temp. The turbo would work, it would run... not great but at least I could drive it.
The 1st thing I did was drive it straight out to the Duramax shop to get it tuned in hopes that would smarten everything up. The owner called me up the next day saying he couldn't get it to start even though I had given him all the info on what to do to get it going. That was when he told me he was farming out the actual tune to "Mark" in Indianapolis and he would send all the truck info to him and he would load that tune later that day.... well... He did as he said... but, it fixed NOTHING, and "Mark" told him that the only way this would work properly is if I used a LLY FICM. :mad: which meant.... rewiring EVERTHING! Re-acquiring an LLY FICM(Next to impossible) getting another LLY engine harness since I hacked up mine to go the LB7 route. So he charged me $600 for his extra F'ing around and loading Marks tune into the LB7 ECM and watched me drive away in a cloud of smoke.
I spent the entire next day going through all my auto wrecker connections trying to find an 05 Duramax that still had all the wiring for the engine & ECM harness and a FICM since I had sold my original many months previous. I ended up finding a couple but they were hesitant to sell what I needed & they priced it accordingly. The "last chance" was in a nearby satellite city. The staff were confused by my needs & really didn't understand what I was after so I ended up driving out & showing them EVERYTHING I needed MANY times to be sure they knew exactly what I needed. I asked/offered several times to extract the harnesses myself so I knew It would be done right but they assured me they could do it for me. So, two days later I get a text picture of the engine harness saying "Harness is ready" but, the ECM harness wasn't in the picture so I mentioned that. The next message was a picture of a harness CHOPPED on the transmission tail saying "This one?":mad::mad::mad::mad: Well I snapped, I lost it!!! Once I was done venting, I just asked them the include the transmission end of the harness & I would splice it back together. They did.... & I did. But, while I was splicing it back together I couldn't help but notice that the cuts on the wire ends didn't match but I carried on and finished it up. After 3 hours of soldering I pulled the truck in & removed the ECM harness from the truck and compared them only to find that the one I had been working on all morning was 18" too short. They had cut the harness TWICE and left a foot & a half of it in the truck!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: SO.... after venting my frustration to an empty shop for a few minutes I collected my thoughts & decided to splice the tranny tail piece from my LB7 harness onto the LLY ECM harness. This actually solved the Park-neutral switch change up issue between the 03 & the 05 but I found there is one extra wire in the connection to the transmission valve body that I also had to transfer over to the LB7 tail piece. So after another 4 hours of wire swapping & splicing I finally had EVERYTHING I needed. I installed the ECM & engine harness, the FICM and the original ECM I got with the LLY engine.
After completing the "emergency security relearn" I turned the key.... and she lit up like nothing had ever happened, it was FINNALLY running and running well. Today I took it back out to the Duramax shop to have him install the tune to get rid of the variable vane turbo & EGR codes, fix the fuel gauge polarity and add some bottom end torque. He did it & gave me a "deal". I have been playing with it ever since & it is AMAAAAAZING!!!!!!

Moral to this excruciatingly long story....
Do your homework & ALWAYS trust yourself more than you trust others if you've done your homework.
If I had followed that advice this story would have been MUCH shorter!!!!

oh ya.... AND LB7 ECMs and FICMs do NOT like LLY injectors!!!!

Thank you everyone for your help!

Farr OUT!!
 
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